SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Skills I am trying to Master

I listed these out as a reminder list for me.

Obviously this is all a work in progress!

I'm curious to know if there is anything substantial missing from you guys opinions. Help Me Complete / Curate the List

Here it is so far:

1. Time-Outs

Pause when either of you is triggered.

Clingers: Practice self-soothing. Switch to other sources of connection (friend, walk, journal) — without guilt.

Avoiders: Call the time-out before shutting down. Say: "I need a break. I’ll come back at 3:30." Keep that promise.

Repair Attempts: Normalize resets: "I think we’re off track. Can we start over?" Use this before things escalate.

2. Mirroring = Thought Empathy: "Send, Mirror, Check, Pull"

Let the sender speak fully. The receiver mirrors exactly what they heard, checks for accuracy ("Did I get that right?"), then asks: "Please Tell Me More About That"

Match the slower person’s pace. No rushing.

Speak less . Listen More.

3. DISARM, PREVALIDATE and Validate / Feeling

Start with: "You might have a good point there" or "You're right that I do xyz"

Then name their emotion: "I can imagine you’re feeling hurt because I canceled plans again."

Inquiry: "Tell me how you're feeling?"

Not agreement but acknowledgment.

4. "I Feel" vs. "I Think"

✅ "I feel sad." (True emotion)

❌ "I feel ignored." (Thought/accusation) →

Rephrase: "I feel lonely when we don’t talk at night."

Tune in daily to own body. Name the feeling, not the story.

5. Opinions = "I Think"

Say: "I think…" or "I believe…" — never absolute truths.

This leaves space for their truth. No "You always" or "You never."

6. SHARE EVERYTHING

No Omissions, No Avoidance

Share hard truths — with care.

Ask: "Can I share something vulnerable?" Then use the tools.

Make it safe: stay calm, don’t interrupt.

If they’re sharing, your job is to listen not fix.

7. Daily Appreciation

Name what you admire — specific, real, small.

"I loved how you laughed at dinner."

Revisit happy memories.

Gratitude builds emotional credit.

8. Fairness ≠ Resentment

Take turns. Both must say "fair" — but dig deeper:

"Are you saying yes because you want to, or because you’re afraid to say no?"

Self-care isn’t selfish. Hobbies, space, rest are non-negotiable.

9. Emotional Fitness

Use CBT to manage anxiety/depression.

Sit with discomfort. Name it: "This is anxiety. It’s here to protect me."

Cry when needed.

Self-compassion > self-criticism.

10. Physical Connection

Hold hands. Hug. Initiate touch — even small. Reach out with your hand.

If you need a hug: "Can I have a hug?" Make it long.

Affection rebuilds safety.

11. Repair with Apology

Apologize specifically: "I’m sorry I raised my voice — it scared you, and that wasn’t okay."

Accept apologies with: "Thank you for saying that. I accept your apology."

No "but."

12. Weekly Check-In (10 mins)

"How are we doing?"

Mirror. Validate. Appreciate.

Preventive care for connection.

Application:

TRIGGER TYPES AND THEIR TREATMENT:

1. Nervous system triggers (fight, flight, freeze)

Signs: raised voice, racing heart, shutdown, inability to think clearly.

Best response: regulate first. Take a break, breathe, walk, lower arousal. Don't try to solve the problem while either person is flooded.

SKILL 1

2.Attachment triggers (fear of rejection, abandonment, not being important) - Betrayal trauma sits here

Signs: "You don't love me," "You're pulling away," clinging or pursuing.

Best response: reassurance plus boundaries. For example: "I love you. I'm not leaving. I need 30 minutes to calm down, then I'll come back."

SKILL 1, 10

3.Old wound or trauma triggers (Betrayal Trauma sits here too)

Signs: the reaction is much bigger than the current situation.

Best response: acknowledge the feeling without agreeing that the current partner caused all of it.

Curiosity helps: "This seems to have touched something really painful."

SKILLS 2, 3, 4

4.Values or boundary triggers (Betrayal in this category)

Signs: a genuine violation such as lying, insults, broken promises, or disrespect.

Best response: don't just soothe the emotion. Address the behaviour, repair the breach, and rebuild trust.

SKILL 6, 8, 9, 11

Habit or preference triggers

Signs: irritation about dishes, lateness, noise, etc.

Best response: practical problem-solving rather than deep emotional processing.

BRAINSTORMING SKILL but uses SKILL 5 plus 2-4

RELATIONSHIP MAINTENANCE

SKILLS 6, 7, 8, 10, 12

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 1:15 PM, Monday, June 29th]

Ah, I knew it was you.

Maybe it's just my trauma talking, but some of these things read a bit... slippery to me. Like easy to misuse

First off, I'm curious about when you're thinking these principles are applicable. After one partner has fundamentally betrayed the other, there may well be times when the BS doesn't give a fat damn about reflecting and mirroring and accepting apologies. Is there an expectation that these are ground rules for both partners, or is this a guide for the WS only?

Second, I have an issue with always validating and saying "you're right." Sometimes, people are wrong. Even betrayed spouses can be wrong. Being cheated on doesn't confer a cloak of infallibility.

You can understand and even accept bad behavior from someone you have wronged, but that's not the same as validating the behavior itself. Authenticity is the cornerstone of rebuilding trust. Be honest. All people do not, in fact, make sense all the time. "You're right" indicates agreement, not acknowledgement.

I was also wondering if these things were meant to go both ways. That's the impression I got from the original post.

"You're right" indicates agreement, not acknowledgement.

Yup. "I hear what you're saying" or "I understand why you feel that way" would be better for acknowledgement. Sometimes our thoughts and emotions are unreasonable, disproportionate, or based off of incorrect information about the reality of a situation. It's okay to recognize that and work through it, whether in conversation with your BS or elsewhere... But "all people make sense all the time" removes any anchor to objectivity we might otherwise maintain.

This is a guide for Waywards. BPs can develop their own!! Hence posting it here and not in General!

As for the comment "You're right" - this is meant more in the sense of pushing you to find at least a grain of truth in what the other person is telling you. Of course no one is 100% right but in most discussions it helps to push you to default in accepting some of the other's person's viewpoint.

It's just a "reminder phrase". I like reminder phrases that are short and flashy and easy to remember because they help keep the ship on course when my brain gets overheated.

I adapted it moderate the phrase.

I hear that the List is too simple.

Yes. This could be fleshed out in many directions. It is meant as a simplified reminder list.

Obviously another point is you use it regardless of how the other person acts.

If they are triggered and can't mirror you, you mirror them regardless. That way one person can stay calm and progress can be made.

It has been useful to me with my kids. They share more with when I am consistent with these behaviours.

It's a lifelong practice especially when you've been down the wayward path. I know for sure I had no clue about Explicit skills in relating as a younger person.

Work related training courses would scratch the surface. I found after blowing up my house and getting serious about rebuilding my life I really wanted to dig deep and find out what "worked".

Applying what works is really A Fake It Until You Make It process for me (especially as a Wayward). Obviously I had poor skills and that got me to where I was.

I am learning to embrace the whole of me because I am not only a Wayward/Cheater but an Avid Learner.

Finally I keep in mind that I can doing all these things but if it's not coming across as caring and loving (which is measured by the other person's feelings) then no skills list in the world is going make anyone enjoy relating to me.

I added a section on Trigger Types and How the Skills could be used for different types because I have noticed myself over time that some behaviours soothe better than others depending on the particular combination.

Like yesterday whilst using Skill 6 there was a mutual Triggering set up. They had Old wounds trigger and I listened carefully and stayed curious, Skills 2 -4. This unfortunately set off attachment trigger in me due to certain words they used plus some Old Wounds.

After some time I decided to use Skill 1 and we moved to another topic but Repair was not complete.

To lett them know what I needed to repair I later on I used a mix of Skills 3 , 4 and 5 in a letter.

This morning after the letter was read I got more Skill 10 back. No talking was required because Skill 10 was enough.

Looking back on this process which took several hours I notice a lot of energy was spent. It was not very comfortable at times. However some real progress got made.

There was no Good Guy or Bad Guy. The Betrayal was not centre of the situation but issues.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 1:30 PM, Monday, June 29th]

I think where I get hung up is this reads more like someone trying to get an A in reconciliation but not really how one changes at their core.

Other than making sure you get self care, what have you learned about:

The ways you contributed to a dynamic in your marriage prior to the affair?

Why did you cheat? What were you seeking?

How did you cheat? What allowed you to pull the trigger?

I do think communication skills are important especially if you are practicing not being defensive. But if you get underneath why you are defensive it allows you to start practicing things that are unique to you.

The ways you contributed to a dynamic in your marriage prior to the affair?

Poor communication and emotional regulation skills. People Pleasing Narcissistic behaviours. Overfunctioning. Conflict resolution that ended up in triggers with poor quality repairs. Lack of insight into Needs and how to get them met inside and outside the relationship such a "chatter needs", emotional soothing, sexual satisfaction, rest and recovery, fun. Too much time chasing money and job priorities.

Why did you cheat? What were you seeking?

I cheated because I met someone who stared at me in a sexually desiring way (trigger) when I felt absolutely unattractive emotionally to my partner (see my contribution to that above).

I was seeking sexual attention and being heard and having fun/release from duties. Home environment felt suffocating and critical.

How did you cheat? What allowed you to pull the trigger?

I made an appointment to meet up outside of work with the person who looked at me sexually and took it from there. The final step that allowed me to pull the trigger was a huge emotionally threatening fight that went completely unrepaired a few weeks prior. This put me at rock bottom.

"It looks like you are aiming for an A in Reconciliation "

Thoughts;

I took away my partner’s decision-making power when I unilaterally abandoned the relationship agreement by secretly seeking outside attenton. I confessed. Initially due to practical reasons we both desired at least attempting reconciliation.

This desire to stay together is true still now but fortunately the emotional landscape has greatly improved due to both of us changing how we relate. Still, I would not call us "reconciled" as I don't yet feel consistently safe. We are not "there" yet.

As time has progressed my partner has requested we don't talk about the past (eg betrayal events) and wants us to "move on" (currently this is a disconnect for us)

So we don't talk about the specific past betrayal events but focus on a recent event and repair these pretty well each time.

The list came about because in early recovery I informed myself on what I had been poor at and I decided it was my duty to learn what I could and apply it rigorously and see where it took me. I realised I had no control over another person so I did this unilaterally and did not request they learn the same skills (Well I tried initially but they took this as me trying to control them and hold them responsible for the betrayal so I finally stopped. That took a while).

From then on I learned these skills and practised them regardless of how I felt, seeking where this process would take me and take my partner. I was hoping they would start to trust me again. I started to see some results consistently over time but triggers still remain.

For me I now see this as far beyond reconciliation. In fact I admit that unless my partner can help me get to safety we will not properly reconcile. And of course if I am not safe then they are not either. But still I keep with the skills I have understood as essential (list above but my request here is for more input to get me over my impasse)

Over time I have found I use these effectively to get along better with kids, neighbours, family members and to stay calm and as a reminder of "the next right thing". So I think they are at least partially effective in training me to become a better parent, friend etc.

Meanwhile the learning process has over time given me gradually more ability to let go of expectations in Reconciliation (even if the old bad habit of expectations still rises its ugly head - more below on why I am here)

I do feel much calmer and mentally healthier in general life, I think partly due to the Self Care skill and also due to the feedback on the comm skills I get from others including my partner. Sex has improved as well. Many things inproved.

Where I am at now is noticing my partner is (I believe) at a different stage from me and we are in a bit of a funk and need new direction because they have not had available or spent the time and resources on the subject of self development as I have. So I am on here trying to get direction by posting and getting feedback.

I go at this from an angle that I can only change what I do so I focus on learning stuff I can do without requesting much of their input except the ones I gain while using the skills on a given situation. I think we have reached a point where they need to give a bit more.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 3:33 PM, Monday, June 29th]

Thanks for answering- because you are new here sometimes it helps to have context on what your work has been versus what you are asking now. I think you have received good feedback on the OP. As long as you have found it beneficial to work on yourself alongside the relationship, you will find ways to refine the process naturally.

Generally when some genuinely wants to change and stops being afraid to look at themselves honestly and deeply, that’s really the momentum you need. It feels better when you do better and it helps change the cycle.

Thanks for asking questions and answering.

In general part of the issue is that I am sometimes treating this like a duty, a project. I failed therefore I need to fix myself. I sometimes lose sight of pleasure and just Being in the relationship.

Another point to try to change 😫

It feels very tiring at times and I wonder when I will be able to take my foot off the gas. A friend of mine says I am trying too hard. She says maybe the relationship is not right for me. This sounds like a cop out since I have still got gaps in my abilities and self awareness. But her words do affect me somewhat. I do still feel judged by my partner almost daily and this pattern was present long before the betrayals occurred.

I feel overall LESS judged but it is still too much. Too many rules to follow. Part of the reason I could never be myself with this person was I allowed their emotional discomfort to reign and it stopped me from sharing my inner world.

I now see the same People Pleasing Narcissistic traits in them and see this as something which will hold us back from a great life together. But I don't control that. I can only use the skills to deal with it.

I now force the situation and share my inner world regardless but it brings up a lot of triggers. The process feels exhausting. I come here to get some relief. Maybe someone had a magic thing I have overlooked.

I genuinely Want to change. I am absolutely open to it. I push myself pretty hard. I have dealt with a huge amount of anger-producing thoughts and now very rarely ever get angry. I do get triggered into defensiveness. So working on that.

My kids tell me they see me as very "Chill". I keep my voice very calm.

I now rarely get irritated or off balance very much by external events EXCEPT my partners upset. For some reason this I have not been able to get to grips with fully. Hence reconciliation still feels elusive.

So I recognise I need to let go of something, I need something to catalyse me into a new direction now so it feels better. Instead I feel sad almost every day. It doesn't seem this should occur in a reconciled relationship. I recognise CBT could help with this. I also need to work on self compassion and self validation. I need to see that even the betrayal period as twisted as it was, was all I was able to do at that time. I need to let go of being the Bad Person.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 4:02 PM, Monday, June 29th]

Prior to adoption of this "you're right" thing, did you tend to see conflicts as being black and white, as in, one partner is 100% correct and the other is 100% wrong and you've got to battle it out to figure out who's who? I'm wondering if the "you're right" thing is at risk of absoluteness. I think that as long as the ego doesn't get in the way, most people automatically attempt to evaluate what's true and what's not about their partner's side of things.

I don't think you can neatly fit every conversation into the principles you're describing, nor apply a formulaic approach to interactions until you get the result you desire. People are complex and don't always behave or respond the way we expect or would like them to. What we do and say can be perceived differently than we intended, and that can't always be corrected. Interactions can be messy, and we just have to do our best and manage our own responses.

I hear a lot of overlap with my situation in yours-- over functioning, conflict that isn't fully resolved, unmet social needs (I think that's what you mean't by "chatter needs?"), feeling undesired/undesireable, potentially escapism from everyday life and responsibilities... So I get it.

It sounds like you are trying to be better about asking for what you need from your husband... But are you also trying to figure out:

a) which needs he should be meeting

b) which needs other people (friends, family, hired help, etc.) should be helping you to meet

c) and which needs you should be meeting for yourself?

Because like I mentioned before, we are meant to have a social network over which we can spread the emotional labor required of having our needs met, and it's a lot to pin on one other person in our lives. There will be times when your spouse is unable to manage as much of the chores as you need them to complete, when they are unable to make you feel desired/desirable, when they are too tired or just not in the mood to talk, when they don't resolve conflicts to your complete satisfaction, when they don't give you the sympathy/empathy/solutions you come to them looking for... And what will you do then? That's why it's important to focus on the internal work, not just on fixing the external/marital communication issues.

One of the messages I received here that I had the hardest time internalizing was that much of what we were seeking from our affairs, affair partners, or even from our spouses, we are meant to--and are perfectly capable of-- providing to ourselves. If I want more conversation and connection, I can make platonic friends (of course, I have to fix what was broken inside me that I was forming errant romantic attachment to platonic friends before it's safe to do that) or reach out to family members. If I'm overwhelmed with trying to manage everyone else's needs and feelings, I can hire help, implement different systems, or simply elect to leave them to figure it out for themselves and deal with the consequences if they don't. If there isn't space for my interests, relaxation, or fun in my life, I can make space for it. If I don't feel desired by other people (namely my H), then I can make myself feel sexy. I can provide love, care, and validation to myself that I was seeking in him and in others... These are all still works in progress, of course, but I now know they're a possibility.

Still, I would not call us "reconciled" as I don't yet feel consistently safe.

Can you elaborate on this?

I was hoping they would start to trust me again. I started to see some results consistently over time but triggers still remain.

Trust takes a really, really long time, a lot of consistency, and sustained, demonstrated change to rebuild. I don't know how far out you are from DDay, but I would still recommend reminding yourself to be patient with your BS and their healing process. You can't just talk it out and shower him with affection and expect things to be okay again. One phrase that has been stuck in my mind since I read it in Gemmy's letter to his future self is:

the person who taught your body that love and danger could occupy the same space.

You are that person. The love you express for your BH now is unfortunately tainted by the infidelity, and until the both of you are healed, it may continue to trigger feelings of danger in him. Again, you must be patient for however long it takes... If you feel like the work to reconcile is a lot, you can give yourself short breaks from it where you focus on your own emotional recuperation. Just make sure to come back to it afterwards, otherwise the R will fail.

I now rarely get irritated or off balance very much by external events EXCEPT my partners upset. For some reason this I have not been able to get to grips with fully. Hence reconciliation still feels elusive.

When you come to terms with your infidelity being entirely your own fault, and you work through the shame and eventually come to forgive yourself for it, your BS's feelings become much easier to sit with. They don't inspire defensiveness, anger, or triggers-- usually just empathy, remorse, sadness, and/or grief for what was. And then you use those feelings to motivate yourself to continue working on yourself so that you're never unfaithful again.

edited for clarity

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 5:25 PM, Monday, June 29th]

I hope BSR will come and fix this for me, because I fear butchering it everytime.

I think what you need to consider is how it would feel to share in his pain. The part that BSR reminded us all a long time ago is that what our bs needs is for us to get down on the floor with them.

I remember this because I was you around that time. But the way she said it to me made me put all skills I needed to gain away and focus first just in empathy. When we are in our empathy, we are curious, we can share our grief. I felt terrible about what I had done, but that alone will keep you defensive.

I had to accept what I had done, and own it strong enough to sit in witness of his pain. Be able to recognize we both had a lot to grieve. I stopped trying to fix him and started just trying to love him.

I do think it’s helpful that you do not fear but lean into what you need to do. Self awareness does have its importance but it’s going to take moving it from a project to a connection in the heart. Keep trying for that. And by staying aware you will naturally start prioritizing skills. You will know what’s more immediately holding you back from that goal.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:15 AM, Tuesday, June 30th]

Who/what is BSR?

Agree I need to:

- get down on the floor with them

- own it strong enough to sit in witness of his pain

I think what you are saying is that his pain right now is leaking out as this controlling /trigger behaviour and I am not witnessing it consistently in a way that soothes it. Ie without defending it.

That was really the ultimate point of the Skills list to be able to get there or at least practice IN that direction.

But it risks being Performative/controlling the outcome for the sake of calming my nervous system.

I tend towards a 'I feel pain at our relationship being under attack by our mutual triggered states' rather than a 'you must be feeling pain/triggered purely due to your memories and the story of the betrayal in your traumatised mind and I will stay here with you until you feel better even if it is very uncomfortable'.

I remember one night early on when he was sobbing in the bed and I was terrified and felt absolutely gutted, crawling under the bedcovers to make myself disappear and just holding his hand and waiting in the extreme discomfort.

But when we both seem 'less' upset that is less 'instinctive' behaviour. Then I switch on the rational/explaining brain. So being able to turn that 'hold your hand, feel it and say nothing' state is probably what needs (a lot) more practice.

I think it comes down the to issue of impatience. My nervous system is also triggered/less capable. My body remembers also painful memories from before the betrayal where I was literally ignored and let down. I then pushed his head completely under the water by secretly Monkey Branching to another person. But I can remember my pain more clearly. His is embodied in him and mine is embodied in me. Getting a sense of what is embodied in him takes more practice.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 6:43 AM, Tuesday, June 30th]

@GotTheMorbs

a) which needs he should be meeting

b) which needs other people (friends, family, hired help, etc.) should be helping you to meet

c) and which needs you should be meeting for yourself?

I've done these internal dialogues myself. It is many years. I am far far better at meeting many needs without his help. The ones he needs to meet in order for this to be viable are really to do with physical affection, SOME conversation, shared sexual experiences, shared parenting, and the experience of living in a household (negotiation on how to share the space, meals etc).

I can meet many other needs in other ways (I can buy myself flowers or treats and go on evenings out and buy myself a coffee or whatever and I do so regularly, I can get the meaningless type chatter from many sources (podcasts, forums, phone calls with a parent, texting with friends.) I am not particularly stuck on the 'needs part' anymore. I am a fast switcher now! I just have to observe he has switched off and stopped listening even for a second and I shut up and stop talking without feeling bothered by it. It was hugely poorly managed by me prior to the betrayal.

I even hold my own hand in the bed at night and have a small self encouragement talk. I have little teams of imaginary therapists who I chat with in these moments. I don't need this from him either.

Still, I would not call us "reconciled" as I don't yet feel consistently safe.

This is regarding the fact we will go through weeks where there are frequent small trigger events that appear to be random at least to me. Things will be going well and suddenly he will come back upstairs from stacking the dishwasher and start attacking me for still being in bed at 09.30 am on a Saturday (reads: I was all alone downstairs working and abandoned by you). Sometimes I handle these well. Sometimes I get triggered back. I feel literally suffocated/overwhelmed. It is the times I get triggered back that give my nervous system the impression we are not safe. Safe meaning Nervous system calm.

I was hoping they would start to trust me again. I started to see some results consistently over time but triggers still remain.

I have just learning about the time lag biologically. Rationally he will say I am doing well and helping him a lot stay calm. He will say things that lead me to believe he feels ok. Then he will suddenly trigger over stacking the dishwasher alone. And I think - what the hell is this? It can come after a week where I have been very consistent. What I now understood is there is no shortcut, he will just need to catch up slowly and I need to keep doing what I was doing before that led him to say I am doing well.

The issue that persists after the event is: is this end? are we just doomed and incompatible? When you are in a triggered state the 'we're doomed' conclusion comes in lightning speed to mind. Some days later (and it can take days) that thought is further away. My issue is probably there hasn't been enough or long enough calm periods for me to completely put the idea to the side, and as long as that idea is within reach I remain more susceptible to be triggered. So it compounds the cycle. What I need is a long enough period of calm to let go of the incompatibility idea, because in reality I have memories of really good times even recently and throughout the time we've been together. One of the issues with affairs is the high intensity of 'good time' that they seed into the memory. So a normal relationship good time will pale into comparison. Over time I have been able to dim that.

the person who taught your body that love and danger could occupy the same space.

I am that person and so in fact are his parents, particularly his father who he talks about nearly all the time. He has equated me to his father on multiple occasions. So basically he has not had a safe parent and then found an unsafe partner straight after. We are talking though his childhood experiences in small doses (ice cream being pushed into his face by his father etc) and I am doing the soothing that he has as yet never received from his parents.

your infidelity being entirely your own fault, and you work through the shame and eventually come to forgive yourself for it,

I have no issue with the logic that I DID the cheating and other people in my situation DID not or WOULD NOT have (they just would have hunkered down and got more miserable or left the situation, and a small minority would have sought help). If I could set the clock back I would 100% seek help knowing what is out there. But I didn't - I saw that as a weakness - all of these perceptions are now changed for me. I don't see getting help as a weakness at all anymore.

He was into hunkering down and being miserable. I saw an opportunity and took it and said to hell with you 'you're treating me badly and you don't care anyway' (mental narrative: incorrect) .

I am working on the 'how could I have done that part' and I am getting through the sludge mentally. The most useful explanation I found for me was rooted in 'People Pleasing Conflict avoiding Nice Girl Narcissism'. I don't believe I am disordered and untreatable, but I believe at the time I was temporarily severely empathy-impaired by a mixture of fatigue from life and constant triggered cycles due to mutual poor communication skills and lack of self soothing and self care, unmet (sexual/affection/conversation) needs, PLUS thought patterns as an INDIVIDUAL that pre-date the relationship (cultural ones from childhood/contempary life, being given certain things as a youngest 'favourite' child of a certain parent, feeling superior/entitled, believing secrets are acceptable, believing 'men are bad', believing I was a good person because I was not 'nasty' but in reality I did a lot of stuff others secretly found unpleasant and they never told me just avoided me - but not enough for it to be obvious). Then there was the toxic combination of an opportunity on top. I didn't have any defences left at this point. In reality it is really a lot of ignorance that I have now rooted out. Which is Why I don't see cheating as a risk at all any more. But I do see myself as not fully IN the relationship (as per above) except for the amount of effort I am willing to make to change. My feelings have not caught up with it yet. They sometimes get there though. I get there when he is affectionate in particular. Or we have a great conversation. And we have both of these with increasing frequency. Just not enough (yet).

He had different thought patterns - a greater sense of DUTY and self sacrifice (and he did not have the opportunity either due to a highly masculine workforce which we both had). So cheating was not an Option mentally or physically open to him.

The affair was a completely self and other-short and long-term-destructive way to go about improving the relationship. In the immediate short term it was a grenade. It added a long term injury to the situation. Idiotic and no-one in their right mind would do it if they thought it through sanely. It's literally like shooting yourself in the foot and taking the other person down with you. Yet despite all the terrible pain that I caused to him (and me), given who I was, my beliefs, my skills and my emotional state then, this was the only response I was capable of generating. So there is a lot to clean up.

It will probably take more time. But I am thinking what is the work for that, what skill is that? I need some help in practical ways to develop it. I get incredibly sad for cruelty when I SEE it. I am ashamed and SAD. I need maybe sit longer with the sad feelings.

But I think maybe I need to learn to not just sit through it but label it all. I think it falls under the CBT skill (write down the thought and the feelings that go with them and work through that) and I know I haven't practiced enough yet.

So your ideas are welcome here. Specific stuff to do that has worked well for you over time. I have patience and energy and desire to do this. I think a big part is the 'stop trying to fix him and start just trying to love him.'

So it is just BEING with him when he needs comfort I think. Rather than reasoning it out. TURN OFF THAT ANALYTICAL CONTROL FREAK BRAIN.

When he's hurting, I need to first see what he needs. Maybe and even often that will be holding him or standing near. Sometimes it will be listening. Sometimes it will be giving him a little space and then coming back.

I really just want us to be partners who deeply love and care about each other like we always dreamed about at the beginning.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 9:02 AM, Tuesday, June 30th]

BSR is BraveSirRobin (hey girl 🙂)

I think it comes down the to issue of impatience.

I think that’s a big part of what’s happening here. And I think it’s behind the skill list. Skills are great. They help. But without empathy behind them, they land flat. They become empty motions. Like Hiking said, this work is about getting on the floor with our BSs. They may not physically collapse, but the pain is that level. And when we get on the floor and "lay down" beside them, we become an anchor. A rock. Someone who can breathe air back into the room when everything feels tight. Someone who can help hold the pain instead of trying to outrun it.

And here is a painful truth for us, marriage issues take a backseat to affair issues for a long time. The marriage you had before the nuke you dropped, doesn’t exist anymore, any issues you may have had just don't land the same way. That doesn’t mean what you rebuild can’t be beautiful, it absolutely can. But what gets poured into the foundation now determines what it becomes. Empathy, consistency, accountability, patience, that’s the concrete. I found too through doing the work most of my "issues" were a me thing and resolved as I grew healthier.

Things will be going well and suddenly he comes upstairs and starts attacking me for still being in bed at 09:30…

If it was triggered due to your A the thing about them is that they don’t follow the moment, they follow the wound. I also want to insert here that being cheated on doesn’t give a BS a pass to be abusive. Slamming things can lean into abusive territory, verbally attacking you can also lean into abusive territory. Use discernment, and also an understanding for reactive abuse. This path is full of landmines for both parties. But curiosity, empathy,  and compassion are the things that keep you connected while you navigate it.

(reads: I was all alone downstairs working and abandoned by you).

I am no longer a fan of making assumptions, maybe it is abandonment. Maybe resentment. Maybe he was doing a mindless task and his brain drifted back into the betrayal. It could literally be anything. The only way to know is to ask him.

One of the hardest things for us as WS is bringing up their pain. It feels counterproductive, like we’re poking the bruise. But in reality, it shows them we’re still there. Still on the floor with them. We didn’t get up and leave them alone to deal with it. And if the trigger is about your A, then honestly, yay! That’s your chance to demonstrate what you’re learning. If it’s not, then you gain information about what’s happening with him internally. Both a win. Both useful information.

I feel literally suffocated/overwhelmed… my nervous system gets the impression we are not safe.

I get that, overwhelm doesn’t have to be a stop sign. It can be information too. It can be a signal that your system needs grounding before you respond. Sometimes that looks like taking one breath before speaking. Sometimes it looks like saying, "I want to understand what’s happening for you, give me a second to settle myself." That’s not avoidance. That’s regulation. That’s staying present instead of reacting from fear. It’s the difference between shutting down and staying connected.

But I want to gently remind you his nervous system has been living inside trauma created by the A. Healing for a BS is a 2–5 year process, and that’s not a neat timeline. It’s jagged. It loops. And as WS, it’s easy for us to mistake the fading smoke for safety. The nuke went off awhile ago  the rubble has been cleared, the air is breathable again, but that doesn’t mean the ground is stable for him.

This is why I’m wondering how the fallout was handled early on. Did you TT? Minimize? Blame? How far along are you two now? If he didn’t get what he needed in the beginning, his body may still be carrying unresolved shock.

And this is really the heart of it, none of this is about perfection. It’s about presence. It’s about being willing to sit in the discomfort long enough to actually understand what’s happening inside him instead of reacting to what’s happening outside of him. Not by assuming, not by bracing, but by asking and staying curious.

Because when you do that, you’re not just responding to a trigger. You’re showing him you’re still here. You’re showing him you didn’t leave him on the floor alone. You’re showing him that even when it’s messy, even when it’s inconvenient, even when it hits your own wounds, you’re choosing to stay in it with him.

That’s what rebuilds safety.

That’s what rebuilds connection. That’s what rebuilds the M, the new one, the one that exists after the nuke. And honestly, that’s where the healing happens for both of you.

[This message edited by foreverlabeled at 1:24 PM, Tuesday, June 30th]

BSR is Brave Sir Robin- she is a longtime poster here and came around the time I joined.

I had the head working on fixing a matter of the heart and while what she wrote wasn’t to me specifically it changed how I was approaching the whole thing.

It is very hard when you are in deep pain and shame about what you did and the ways you feel hurt to be able to open that connection and share together in the loss. But that is the bridge that we must build as the ws.

A book that helped me start to see where I was blocked in all that was Rising String by Brene Brown. It does take understanding yourself more deeply to understand the defensiveness and the self protection so that you can begin to move those things emotionally.

It’s a very hard onion to peel when still buried in the pain of everything. Self regulation comes in some ways from believing you deserve that peace. The power of now by Eckhardt Tolle helped me learn to self sooth and cope better but it’s not a quick or easy read. I think learning aspects of spirituality and connecting with one’s higher self is an important key. Some people do that through religion, I am not particularly religious. But knowing I am not just this hunk of meat bumbling around the earth but a divine being who is having a human experience, it helped me to shift my perspective and see others in the same way. We are not our thoughts. Our thoughts lie to us.

And yes, we can feel lonely in marriage sometimes but by leaning into that and learning to communicate and ask for what we want allows us to realize we don’t have to give our power away to be in a relationship.

I identify with what you are saying and remember trying so hard to do all the things while feeling like an emptied out shell. Connect with yourself and you can connect with others. Love yourself and you can love others. Everything in our exterior world is a reflection of our interior world. Find ways to be accountable but gentler with yourself at the same time.

Yes it all takes practice and it will feel like fumbling for a while. But that tension is where you will grow from.

marriage issues take a backseat to affair issues for a long time. The marriage you had before the nuke you dropped, doesn’t exist anymore

To be frank I wouldn't WANT that marriage back.

I don't think he would he say he would want it back either.

He threatened divorce literally 3 weeks before I deliberately started talking to and made a "after work chat date" with a male colleague who had shown an interest in me. I was literally ready to take any kind of attention at that point. That timing is not coincidental.

After kids arrived in 2008 there were a few light moments but 95% time we literally just switched went from "functional" (mostly "using each other" to get stuff done) / unemotional to triggered and back again to functional/unemotional. Very sporadic sex life. It was (almost) pure survival mode but looked fine on the surface to others. I literally found him infuriating/irritating after having kids. It got to the point of contempt from my side. I don't know from his. He mostly had his head stuck in the sand and worked a lot. But we were actually a good 'financial/project' team. So we got stuff 'done'.

After a long time of this the narrative in my head was 'he doesn't care' plus a whole bunch of anger which came with the tiredness of managing a FT job on top of kids and the house (which I took on 90% of - stupidly I modelled my SAHM mother at home and then went out to work on top, he just modelled his father who had been facilitated by a SAHM).

There was really very little warmth or affection. Lots of sulking, impatience, anger and resentment mostly from me. And the occasional nice moment on holiday when we were both more relaxed. The last 3 years leading up the betrayal period killed it dead except for holidays (and the ones with the kids were not easy). My fatigue from Overfunctioning got to its the limit. But I had NO IDEA what to do. Divorcing or leaving was unimaginable.

So where we are now is a actually the best consistency and closeness we have been at any other time together other than the honeymoon period in 2000-2001 or brief holidays/good times which were short-lived. Which goes to show how disconnected we were and for how long.

I think this is why although the revelation of betrayal was very hard I do think he was ultimately ready to stay because he knew we were seriously going off the rails, it wasn't just me - having himself threatened divorce. I don't equate threatening divorce to betrayal but the marriage was not worth much at that time to either person. It was Duty.

You can see that when we work through triggers it's not just betrayal we work through.

SO the 2nd of 2 pretty brief (1-2 month) affairs was confessed to in late 2018. I then TT'd (held back the 1st affair from 2017) various bit of informations. I Minimized it. I finally revealed properly what had happened in early 2023. I started therapy in 2023 as well after this. I blamed him. In fact I only really told him 'the betrayal was nothing to do with you' about a year ago. So he has only had relative safety for about a year if you include started from not feeling blamed. I would say we are 1.5 to 2 years in other aspects.

I am aware this is probably one of the least ideal scenarios for recovery. A long marriage with TT, multiple betrayals and long period of disillusionment. What helped was starting early 2019 I did start trying to understand my psychology and the psychology of relationships and started to use some skills like gratitude to shift us in a positive direction for the first time. Obviously with unrevealed facts it was not enough to call it 'reconciliation', nor even a proper self rebuilding, but it was 'stable' and gradually a bit better than what had gone before - but then with a heap of betrayal on top to work through.

You can probably see why I call it Everest. My friend (the one who told me maybe we should split when I would tell her of yet another set of triggers) is aware of this timeline. He has not told anyone but our (very good) family therapist from late 2024. This is his choice not mine. I have told a 2 therapists and 2 good friends.

Late 2024 we started a series of sessions with one of these therapists, a good one - at my insistence. He had read Getting The Love You Want at my insistence. He was warming up gradually. She did not take sides and he bonded with her well. She dug into both sets of childhood and validated both. We started to address problems in a constructive way.

What happened over time now since early 2025 when we finished with her is that he listened to an audio book (What Your Mother Couldn't Tell You And Your Father Didn't Know by John Gray) and changed himself more, becoming far easier going at home. More affectionate. Now he think it's enough. He 'wants to move on and put it behind us'. So he no long wants to talk about the past. He now has developed new friends, new hobbies and is less work focussed. He has started taking holidays solo with his brother. All good things.

As far as us he want to keep going. But on my side I now seem to want to do nonstop betrayal "recovery work" on my own. I keep almost all of this out of his view (so as not to remind him) but this is not really 'secretive' - he know I listen to and read stuff. So as time goes on I learn skills, apply them, get good results, then fall down, and get back up again, read more, listen more.

Still, some weeks I feel excessively controlled after a period of calm. This last period was like that and so I decided I would come on here. But I am not new to the set up of these forums and I have consulted a ton of other sources before now to understand the theory of how we get safe relating with ourselves and others and how the brain functions.

The issue is my 'rationality'. Being a scientific person I want every to be quantifiable. I want to be able to push buttons and achieve goals. I want to feel in control. I want to do stuff that works. So I treat it like a Project, the most important one I have every undertaken: get to be a Good New You. And then I get stuck along the way, like now, stuck in rationality and reasoning and practice.

I hope that helps explain the background better. It's not a justification for affairs but the affair part was really shining a light on what was not working and way to bring a crisis to the table. Interestingly the year I had the affair in 2017 my sister's marriage was disintegrating. As we had very little intimacy in the family she had not shared it so it came as a shock when she dropped that bomb. I know I had a bomb of my own. My brother's marriage crumbled 2 years later. We are the only of the 3 still together. My sister is still single and my brother is dating again after a 2 year relationship was called off by his post separation 'new' partner. All the exes are amicable. But I think this indicated a level of common family dysfunction (each having different sorts) that we each individually deal with. We share a fair amount by Whatsapp group. We are far more intimate in each others lives. But all they know about me is that we 'nearly divorced' (because my BH does not want to broadcast it - for my part I would tell more people and my family as well - because I am OK now tolerating what others think of me - but I have to respect his decision)

What has actually helped me this weekend was to input our specific 'CONTROLLING' dialogues into AI chat analysis and get specific to understanding on what is going on / why we do this and it expressed it in such a way that I could see why my being 'rational' is not helping.

The underlying dynamics stay the same:

High emotional activation on both sides

A repeated loop of:

her → fear / protest / need for reassurance

you → analysis / structure / "rules" / withdrawal risk

Trust lag after past betrayal

Sensitivity to "control vs safety" themes

So the system problem remains:

nervous system mismatch + unresolved injury loops

Not "which person is right.

When people feel emotionally unsafe, they shift from:

bonding system → "be close, stay connected" to control system → "analyse, predict, manage risk"

It turns feelings into "facts"

Instead of:

"I feel anxious"

It becomes:

"there is a problem with you"

Even negative conclusions feel stabilising:
"she is unreliable" feels clearer than "I feel uncertain"
"this will get worse" feels more controlled than "I don’t know"
Clarity (even if wrong) reduces anxiety temporarily.
That’s why it persists.

Just letting a positive interaction exist without analysis.
These small moments of uncomplicated connection are often what gradually rebuild trust more than any explanation ever does.

This is a kind of "do this and I will probably feel cared for or loved – i.e. safer." Here are some examples:

Bring me a cup of something hot.
Take my arm in public.
Massage my feet with oil. Take 10 minutes.
Give me a greeting card.
Cook breakfast for me.
Call me when you leave work to tell me you are coming home.
Ask me about my day.

There are lots and lots of these. Make sure your list is simple and clear. Now, trade lists and practice. Each of you starts doing, daily, something from your partner’s list. If you are not clear what an item means, ask for clarity.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 3:32 PM, Tuesday, June 30th]

The issue is my 'rationality'. Being a scientific person I want every to be quantifiable. I want to be able to push buttons and achieve goals. I want to feel in control. I want to do stuff that works. So I treat it like a Project, the most important one I have every undertaken: get to be a Good New You. And then I get stuck along the way, like now, stuck in rationality and reasoning and practice.

I totally feel that, lol. Maybe this is something you've already realized, but the desire to control things is usually rooted in a fear of being out of control, which tends to come from previous, traumatic periods of time where you weren't in control. To rectify that, we are meant to work on letting go of the fear of being out of control. I often ask myself, "What is the worst that could happen if I don't try to control this situation?" and usually the most realistic and probable outcomes are not as bad as I previously thought, and the unrealistic outcomes are, well, unrealistic and quite silly.

I hope that helps explain the background better. It's not a justification for affairs but the affair part was really shining a light on what was not working and way to bring a crisis to the table.

It is said many times on this website that infidelity is like cancer. You can get healthier without having cancer, but if you do get cancer and survive it, you're much more likely to take better care of your health. The cancer doesn't make you healthier, of course, but the end result can be positive. Just the same as infidelity not making your marriage stronger, but the outcome can be that the rebuilt marriage is stronger, better, and healthier than it was prior to the infidelity. I'm happy to hear that that seems like where you're headed with yours.

Thank you

Yes. When people say it'll never be the same marriage I usually think "thank Goodness". That might just be my situation!! We needed to get gangrene on top of the cancer we already had left untreated and then clean the lot up.

When they say Once A Cheat Always A Cheat it also stings. I get that it is self protective but it does not cover the whole range of what a human can do to change once they have the knowledge, the will, the encouragement.

Yes someone might not work on their attitude and yes you must reserve judgment until they do show intiative, but since 95% of people are not sociopathic, as soon as they understand their current attitude and behaviours are causing them pain and will not get them what they desire longer term AND you show them how to change them then they definitely will change - provided they have the knowledge, the energy and the means.

Try to let the insults and generalizations roll off your back like water on duck feathers. You know what is true about you, and what you are capable of, better than anyone else. Here is generally the safest/most understanding place to talk about being a recovering WS, though there are still some members who are pro-divorce and will say things like that. You'll learn their names, and then it becomes easier to soothe yourself before you even read what they write, such that the emotional impact afterwards is drastically reduced.

When they say Once A Cheat Always A Cheat it also stings. I get that it is self protective but it does not cover the whole range of what a human can do to change once they have the knowledge, the will, the encouragement.

Yeah, it stung for me too. In my early days here I was often faced with this from our hurting BSs, actually telling me "there's no chance you'll be able to change" and saying that very phrase. I wanted to fight back maybe once or twice I did. But.. I quickly understood it’s not a moral judgment. It’s a statistical one. It’s a reflection of how rare deep change actually is.

When you look at the numbers, the truth is that most people don’t change in any meaningful way after infidelity. Not because they’re sociopaths, but because the work required is enormous, uncomfortable, and sustained.